Artikel: Debatte Premium Rate Services/Dialer in England

[dotshead]

http://www.heise.de/newsticker/meldung/49162

Spammer muss Microsoft 4 Millionen US-Dollar Schadensersatz zahlen

dann sind nur noch (rund) 493 Millionen.....

Naja da hab ich sogar nen erster Posting geschafft, welches z.zt. 53 % Zustimmung hat.

Aber das ist Off-Topic, während ich noch warte warum Liberecx Mitglied beim IDI ist und was Liberecx ohne E beiträgt, wenn man die Seite von Herrn Huth ansieht? Wo ist die Abgrenzung von Computerbetrug oder Dialerschutz..de von diesen Anbietern??

 

[Aka-Aka]

---

 

[Aka-Aka]

...während ich noch warte warum Liberecx Mitglied beim IDI ist und was Liberecx ohne E beiträgt, wenn man die Seite von Herrn Huth ansieht? Wo ist die Abgrenzung von Computerbetrug oder Dialerschutz..de von diesen Anbietern??

IDI? Kenn ich nicht [edit: jetzt kenne ich IDI, danke an den Aufklärer und Frage an CB: Kann man sich eigentlich nicht bei IDI beschweren? Ist ja echt ein bockiger Gärtner, sozusagen...]


@seite von Herrn Huth:

Liber*** hatte wohl einen seltsamen Kunden im Ausland, wie schade...

Der Anbieter der Huthseite ist nämlich offenbar eine "Sun***SL" - aber ein Blick ins spanische Handelsregister verrät, dass der GF der 11/02 gegründeten "Sun***SL" RF heisst. Auch wenn auf der bei PH beanstandeten Domain eine andere Firma steht (Dustw* Las Vegas) - zufälligerweise stimmen die Initialen und zufälligerweise existiert eine Firma gleichen Namens in Bayern, die man zufälligerweise im Zusammenhang mit dem Namen des GF findet - mitsamt seiner Adresse. Noch Fragen?
aka

Warum hat Herr H. da nicht selbst recherchiert??? Das frage ich mich bei jeder seiner grandiosen Berichte...

zurück zum Thema

CB wurde bereits in der zweiten Hälfte 2001
gegründet, da da bereits heftige Dialermißbräuche zu beobachten waren.
tf

"Dialler als 0190-Anwendung gibt es erst seit Mitte 2000"
siehe http://www.heise.de/chat/archiv/02/04/26/archiv.shtml (heise-chat im April 2002) - spannend, das klingt, als wäre der chat gestern gewesen - Aber ich hoffe, dass die Briten Ernst machen, dann wird es der schizophrenen deutschen Branche (einerseits "wir wollen bleiben", andererseits "ade deutschland --> Firmen im Ausland") hoffentlich nicht mehr gelingen, ihren Lobbyistenschwachfug politisch durchzusetzen!!!

(Beitrag oben hiermit überflüssig)

 

[Aka-Aka]

grrrr
die icstis hat eine ihrer informativsten Seiten leider vom Netz genommen.

http://www.icstis.org.uk/icstis2002/default.asp?Node=67#8

 

[Anonymous]

warum die icstis ihre Seite vom Netz genommen hat, weiss ich nicht, naja, dafür habe ich bei der "britischen RegTP" zwei nette Sachen entdeckt:

NEUE DIALLER-REGELN, ab sofort gültig (so was geht da offenbar)
pdf-Datei mit Dialler-Regeln

3. Prior to any dialler downloading, the following must occur: (i) Terms and conditions of the service utilising the dialler must be displayed on the users’ screen. They must: (a) be in an on-screen dialogue box or equivalent; (b) set out the costs per minute of connecting to the internet whilst the dialler is operational; (c) make clear that charges incurred by the operation of the dialler are not part of any normal internet ISP costs and that such charges will appear as an itemised amount on the bill payer’s telephone bill

9. Both prior to any dialler downloading and after the dialler has downloaded, the service utilising the dialler must display easily accessible contact details of the service provider. Such details must include their name, full contact address (e.g. not PO Box number) and contact telephone number. 10. Any service provider utilising a dialler must provide a customer e-mail support service and/or a telephone support service charged at no more than national rate. Such support service must be able to deal with enquiries and/or complaints regarding the dialler in question in a manner that is satisfactory to the reasonable user. Such a support service must operate as a minimum from Monday to Friday 9am to 5pm GMT/BST.

Hier ist ein pdf-Dokument, was die ICSTIS alles für Mindestangaben will, bevor ein Dialler zugelassen wird:
pdf-Datei/Dialleranmeldung

und das haben die in UK mal einfach so beschlossen, zack, fertig!

aka

 

[Aka-Aka]

Echt? "vloading" ist aber doch nur die *.cab-Datei gewesen, oder? Der dialer dürfte so in etwa ##-#-#-#.exe geheissen haben.

Frage:

Hab hier von einem Server von hxxp://www.isprime.com eine
2-DE-0-1.exe, mit einer zugehoerigen cab Datei. Sind die so einfallslos mit Namen, oder gibt es da einen Zusammenhang? Evt ueber die hxxp://www.globaldialer.net , die angeblich nicht mehr aktiv ist, aber auf alten Downloadseiten auf diese hxxp://isprime.com Dialer verlinkt? Oder mit einer hxxp://tel2.net auf den Seychellen, wg URLs im Dialer. Ich vermute mal, der String 006905550 ist die Einwahlnummer...
Gr,
TSCN

Ist schon etwas alt, ging aber im Teleflate-Theater unter... Ein Mensch mit dem Namen einer im spanischen Handelsregister eingetragenen Person (Global Dialer SL) steht in der open-bc-Datenbank. Er arbeitete offenbar früher bei einer Firma in Monheim, die später von einer Firma in Hallbergmoos übernommen wurde. Tatsächlich arbeitete der junge Mann gleichen Namens dann bei der Hallbergmooser Firma, inzwischen arbeitet er bei einer Firma, die ich nicht kenne. [edit: vorausgesetzt, die Angaben in dieser Datenbank stimmen! Eine Garantie für die Richtigkeit kann ich ncht geben]
http://www.openbc.com/hp/****

die Sternchen kann ich hier aber nicht auflösen...
siehe pn

GLOBAL-DIALER SL
Dirección C/ FRANCISCO DE GOYA, 8.
07180 CALVIA
BALEARES
...

Fecha de publicación 10/07/2003
...
Objeto social: LA PRESTACION DE SERVICIOS, EN ESPECIAL EL ASESORAMIENTO, FACTURACION Y MEDIACION EN TODA CLASE DE NEGOCIOS A TRAVES DE "INTERNET". LA INVESTIGACION, INGENIERIA, DISEÑO, DESARROLLO, COMERCIALIZACION, FABRICACION Y/O REALIZACION, INSTALACION, DE SERVICIOS DE PROGRAMAS INFORMATICOS
Domicilio: C/ FRANCISCO DE GOYA, 8. (SANTA PONÇA)
...

Declaración de unipersonalidad
SOCIO UNICO: TH*** F***
Nombramientos
ADM.UNICO: TH*** F***
APODERADO: C*** E***

 

[TSCoreNinja]

Kennen wir das nicht? Aber h+bedv waren etwas standhafter... Aus diesem Grund nochmal einen Applaus.
Gr,
TSCN

Sophos in porn dialler row with UK developer

By John Leyden
Published Thursday 30th September 2004 14:53 GMT

Anti-virus firm Sophos yesterday suspended detection of a "porn dialler application", following complaints from its UK-based developer.

A Sophos spokeswoman confirmed that it had removed detection of the Coulomb dialler yesterday afternoon on legal advice, following representations from Coulomb Ltd. Sophos is investigating if its AV software is wrongly detecting a legitimate dialler application developed by Coulomb Ltd as a Trojan.

In the meantime, Sophos has suspended detection of the Coulomb dialler, which remains designated as malware by several AV firms. Resellers and end users who notified The Register of the issue question Sophos? actions. One end user described Sophos as "wimps" for "backing down in the face of cartoony [shallow legal] threats".

Porn diallers are often written to change a user's dial up settings to ring premium rate or overseas phone numbers without the informed content of consumers. It's only when a user is landed with a huge bill that they realise something is amiss.


Informed consent

But Coulomb Ltd said this was not how its application worked. DK, chief exec of Coulomb Ltd, said its application did "exactly what it says on the tin". Its dialler is offered as a payment option on various adult entertainment (sex) websites. If users download the software they are informed that they are to be transferred onto a premium rate number for the duration of a session. This spending limit is capped at £20 per session in line with recommendations from premium rate regulator ICSTIS, K says.

"This is no more a Trojan horse than a big wooden horse with a sign 'Greek Soldiers Inside'" K said.

He acknowledged that various AV scanners flagged up the firm's application as illicit. He said that he had begun discussions with Sophos about the issue first because "it had to start somewhere". "We may well contact others later," he added.

Sophos specialises in the enterprise market. Resellers who notified us of the issue question how it could ever be legitimate to run Coulomb's application from a corporate PC

"I'm pretty disappointed that the latest virus detection release (IDE in Sophos terms) has been butchered to remove the detection of Coulomb's diallers," one reseller writes. "In my experience: Coulomb dialler = porn dialler. Sophos is used in networks - network users should never have a reason to download a dialler."

The designation of malware, once clear cut, has become more contentious over the last year or so. A S, senior AV technologist at MessageLabs, which uses a number of third-party AV scanners in its email filtering service, said that AV companies such as McAfee that offer end users more choice over what application to block were in a better position than Sophos to withstand legal pressure.

 

[Anonymous]

Mr D.K.? Coulomb? Da war doch mal was...
http://forum.computerbetrug.de/viewtopic.php?t=6436&highlight=knell

 

[TSCoreNinja]

Und mal wieder bei TheReg fuendig geworden. Dialer scheinen in England derzeit tatsaechlich ein Problem zu sein. Und BT scheint weniger zimperlich mit dem Abschalten zu sein als ihr deutsches rosarotes Analogon.

Sihe http://www.theregister.co.uk/2004/10/05/bt_rogue_dialler/

BT blocks 1,000 rogue dialler numbers
By Tim Richardson
Published Tuesday 5th October 2004 14:11 GMT

BT is once again writing to its 1.8m dial-up internet users warning them to be on their guard against rogue diallers. In the last three months the UK's dominant fixed line telco has blocked 1,000 numbers which it reckons are being used to run premium-rate dialler scams.

In July, BT said it would take action against rogue dialler companies which defraud consumers by secretly changing their computer settings so they call a premium rate phone line instead of their usual ISP number.

Despite taking this "block first, ask questions later" approach, BT has now dealt with 45,000 cases where customers have run up inflated phone bills because of rogue diallers. Another 9,500 cases are waiting to be resolved.

As a result, BT is once again writing to its punters to remind them how to prevent becoming victims of these scams.

Said BT bigwig Gavin Patterson: "BT is doing everything in its power to stop this menace. We have taken the decision to block numbers suspected of being associated with diallers as soon as we are alerted to a problem.

"We will be emailing all of our dial-up customers again to give them advice on how to avoid falling victim to a dialler, because customers need to take action as well to protect themselves, as we believe many cases aren’t fraud but are due to a lack of awareness from customers."

Gr,
TSCN

 

[TSCoreNinja]

Und BT scheint weniger zimperlich mit dem Abschalten zu sein als ihr deutsches rosarotes Analogon.

Nun ja, wobei sich die armen serioesen Dialerdruecker ob der Beintraechtigung ihrer Geschaeftsidee anscheinend fleissig zur Wehr setzen, siehe
http://www.theregister.co.uk/2005/02/22/bt_court_case/

sued for blocking suspected 'rogue dialler' numbers

Published Tuesday 22nd February 2005 11:51 GMT

BT is facing legal action over its decision to block premium-rate lines suspected of being used by rogue dialler companies to rip off punters and rack up huge phone bills.

Birmingham-based Opera Telecom is suing BT for blocking access to lines Opera leases to adult content outfit Netcollex and is seeking compensation for lost revenues.

BT says it will "vigorously defend" the action, which is due to be heard in the High Court on Friday.


In June last year BT responded to mounting concerns about rogue dialler software - which secretly changes a computer's settings to call a premium rate phone line instead of its usual ISP number - and began "proactively blocking calls to these numbers.


Late last week The Register learned that the UK's giant telco had abandoned its "block now ask questions later" policy. Now it's emerged that it took the action because of the threat of legal action.


A spokesman for BT told is: "We will vigorously defend the claim by Opera Telecommunications in respect of BT's action to suspend the premium rate number operated by Netcollex."


No one at Birmingham-based Opera Telecom was prepared to comment on the case.

 

[Aka-Aka]

BT hat doch die Aktion schon abgebrochen
http://www.theregister.co.uk/2005/02/18/bt_rogue_diallers/

ich suchte gerade einen Artikel, in dem die Firma netcollex vorkommt (die im Registerartikel erwähnt wird). Der Artikel hieß "dial f for fraud").

off topic:
Dabei fand ich einen Artikel des FBI
http://www.fbi.gov/page2/oct04/telfraud100604.htm
-- http://www.usdoj.gov/opa/pr/2004/October/04_crm_680.htm

gemeint habe ich aber diesen Artikel:
http://www.wtmag.co.uk/archive/premiumrate/summer04.htm

Lesen, wundern, verzweifelt aufschreien...

For its part, ICSTIS believes it is pulling out all the stops to bring the problem under control quickly. To this end, the organisation has been liaising with The Network for Online Commerce (NOC) about new measures to vet service providers.

[ironie]Übersetzung: Hilfesuchend wandte sich die überforderte RegTP an den Verein FST und bat ihn, bei der Überprüfung der Anbieter zu helfen[/ironie]

Dieser Typ von netcollex ist in der so genannten "Special Interest Group Diallers" des Lobbyverbandes NOC, zu dessen Mitgliedern so namhafte Firmen zähl(t)en wie: ddd com

die "opera telecom" hatte schon öfter mal Probleme mit der ICSTIS, siehe dazu auch:
http://www.grumbletext.co.uk/page.php?pn=gtpressrelease3rdApr04

Grumbletext's analysis of information on both the ICSTIS and Grumbletext websites has revealed that it is indeed only a handful of network operators actively engaged in this grubby business. At the time of writing, 85% of all premium rate landline-based complaints on Grumbletext are accounted for by clients of the following five companies:
Redstone PLC 27.9%
Intelliplus Group PLC 22.2%
Opera Telecom 13.1%
Switch Call Limited 11.9%
Tiscali UK Limited 10.6%

siehe dazu auch folgende Diskussion
http://www.the-scream.co.uk/forums/showthread.php?t=11685&page=6

But I do think that the Telco's issuing these 09 numbers may be well aware of possible abuse. Or even encouraging it. I went onto OPERA telecom's website and they are proudly selling their dialler software. They say that customers are reluctant to pay by credit card.... I wonder if they encourage the scammers to remove warnings about cost and charges......

ist die Meinung eines posters dort.

Kommt einem alles so bekannt vor...

Übrigens ist der NOC-Chairman UK ein gewisser Herr N*P*,
siehe
http://www.noconline.org/execomte.aspx

Born in 1964 in Isle of Wight, N* has worked in Telecommunications since 1980. He served 10 years in HM Forces (Army) specialising in Military and Cryptographic Secure Data and Radio Communications. During that time he worked in the UK, Ulster, Germany, The Falkland Islands, Cyprus, Belize, Norway & Canada. After the Army he worked in the City of London for various International Financial institutions specialising in secure bank-to-bank telecommunications systems. He was head hunted in 1996 and Product Managed Orange's first prepaid mobile product 'Just Talk'. He has specialised in the Premium Rate industry since 1997 and worked for Norweb Communications (then Telecom, then Your Communications), various assignments as an independent consultant, COLT where he was Head of IN Services for COLT Northern Europe and is now Group Product Manager at Opera Telecom. Neil has been NOC UK Chairman since 2001.

zur netcollex ist nicht viel zu sagen... commt auf deren website und fühlt Euch wie bei Cico

 

[TSCoreNinja]

Geldwäscheermittlungen gegen British Telecom

Obwohl die Engländer weniger zimperlich beim Abschalten von Nummern waren, haben sie wohl auch oft recht hartnäckig die Beute der Dialerdrücker eingetrieben. Der Jurist hat gegen dieses Eintreiben in Fällen offenkundigen Missbrauchs eine gute Argumentation gefunden ("Geldwäsche"), und scheinbar sind inzwischen auch die Engländer auf diesen Trichter gekommen, dank des Hinweises eines MP (nicht zu verwechseln mit der Berliner gleichnamigen Dialerklitsche oder einem dubiosen Geschäftsmann aus Bingen/Berlin/Delaware, bei der Abkürzung handelt es sich um den Begriff Member of Parliament )
http://www.theregister.co.uk/2005/04/05/bt_rogue_dialler/

MP gets police to investigate BT over rogue dialler scams
By Tim Richardson
Published Tuesday 5th April 2005 14:40 GMT

Police investigating cases where BT customers have been ripped off by rogue dialler software have sent a report to the Crown Prosecution Service (CPS).

The investigation hinges on whether punters who've been conned out of hundreds of pounds by rogue dialler operators should pay their BT phone bills.
Click Here

Labour MP Bob Blizzard wrote to the Chief Constable of Suffolk Police after being contacted by constituents stung by rogue diallers.

He asked the police to investigate whether BT was in breach of the Proceeds of Crime Act for taking money from customers caught by the fraud, which is then passed on, eventually, to those behind the scams.

A short report has now been sent to the CPS, the body responsible for prosecuting people in England and Wales charged with a criminal offence. A spokeswoman for the CPS confirmed that the report had been received and that it is "being looked into".

In a statement the MP for Waveney said: "I know that BT didn't want these scams to happen and they have taken steps to better protect customers in future. BT is something of a victim too, but the company shouldn't punish its customers who have already been scammed. It should be big enough to waive the charges for the fraudulent calls."

But BT maintains that when it comes to these illegal calls, its hands are tied.

In a statement it said: "BT cannot refuse to carry the telecommunications traffic unless or until a criminal act is clearly established. Much as BT would like to act on a mere suspicion of potential wrongdoing, unless BT has very concrete evidence it is very difficult to stop calls or withhold money.

"Indeed BT has been sued on occasions when it tried to take pre-emptive action. Rightly or wrongly, case law suggests that in regulated markets decisions to stop the supply of services should be taken by the regulators, not the service provider," it said.

In its latest move against rogue diallers, the UK telco is planning to introduce new modem protection software which is designed to stop computers from dialling premium rate numbers. Trials in Northern Ireland have proved successful and BT is now looking to make the software available from next month. ®

TSCN